Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Re: Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Postby Dalai » 21.08.2018, 22:49

daz wrote:I did find this too:

https://pw999.wordpress.com/2013/12/21/ ... d-of-grub/

Could give this a try? Would it help my situation?

Let's put it this way: That's the approach I was going to suggest to be able to boot Linux again - eventually, after the update problem itself is solved.

Unfortunately it wouldn't help with the issue at hand (GRUB being the primary boot loader). Furthermore, doing this requires the Windows boot loader to come first. OK, "required" might be a little exaggerated, but otherwise it wouldn't make any sense (boot GRUB, then load BCD from that to be able to boot to GRUB/Linux again is ... quite useless).

EDIT:Also what if I use BOOTICE to change the active partition to the windows partition? That way MBR may load BCD first?

That's one of the required steps I indicated above. My guess is that it wouldn't be enough because it's necessary that the MBR loads something from that partition: the PBR, or partition boot record, I call it a partition boot sector. Meaning that after changing the active partition you would have to install the boot sector to your Windows partition to be able to boot into Windows again. That's what the mentioned bootrec.exe (from a Windows Live-/Setup DVD) can help with (/fixboot and maybe /fixmbr switches in particular).

Regards
Dalai
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Re: Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Postby daz » 22.08.2018, 20:52

Thanks for the info.

I tried startup repair again but no joy.
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Re: Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Postby Dalai » 23.08.2018, 02:09

Which disk is your primary one, i.e. the one coming first in the BIOS boot sequence? Is it the same one that you installed the NT 6.x boot loader on? In other words: Can you boot Windows when you disconnect all disks but the one that has your Windows 7 on it? If so, is GRUB showing up when you do? Which drive contains the (hidden) "Boot" directory, C: or G:?

I'm trying to understand your HDD configuration to perhaps make a plan what you can do.

Regards
Dalai
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Re: Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Postby daz » 23.08.2018, 22:07

Dalai wrote:Which disk is your primary one, i.e. the one coming first in the BIOS boot sequence?


Do you mean this? https://i.imgur.com/sVZMIQA.jpg I have one internal HDD and one external HDD. Only the internal one has any operating systems installed on it, through different partitions. It comes up as IDE channel 7 master. I think this image here may help clear things up: https://snag.gy/5nuL0Q.jpg


Dalai wrote:Is it the same one that you installed the NT 6.x boot loader on? In other words: Can you boot Windows when you disconnect all disks but the one that has your Windows 7 on it? If so, is GRUB showing up when you do? Which drive contains the (hidden) "Boot" directory, C: or G:?



Does this still apply if Linux and Windows are on the same HDD?
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Re: Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Postby Dalai » 23.08.2018, 22:58

daz wrote:Do you mean this? https://i.imgur.com/sVZMIQA.jpg

Although that's not the boot sequence (or boot order) that can be set in the BIOS, it helps to see that there's only one internal disk. Well, kind of, because one can't see if there's text after the "Detecting ..." lines, but that's OK ;).

I have one internal HDD and one external HDD.

OK. I asked because you wrote that you looked at the wrong disk in one of your posts, so I concluded there must be more than one. I didn't think of an external one though.

I think this image here may help clear things up: https://snag.gy/5nuL0Q.jpg

Thanks. I guess the rest of the drives are non-HDDs like optical or similar.

Does this still apply if Linux and Windows are on the same HDD?

I was just making sure whether we're talking about a single disk or multiple disks. Though, the question about the disks is still kind of valid. Can you boot Windows when you disconnect your external disk? I mean, the external disk is the one containing the NT 5.x boot loader after all...

And the question about the boot directory is definitely still valid.

Another question: Did you disconnect the external disk when trying startup repair?

In theory it should work when you set your Windows partition* active and install a boot sector (PBR) onto it, and maybe rewrite the MBR onto the internal disk just to be sure. Before you make any changes, make sure you back-up your partition table (with BOOTICE) to be able to restore it (under Windows PE, i.e. a Windows Live-/Setup DVD).

*) Note that it may be the system-reserved partition instead of the Windows partition that needs to be set active! It depends on where the BCD is actually located: C:\boot\BCD or G:\boot\BCD.

This hopefully sets the BCD as primary boot loader.

Regards
Dalai
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Re: Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Postby daz » 30.08.2018, 21:27

Dalai wrote:Can you boot Windows when you disconnect your external disk? I mean, the external disk is the one containing the NT 5.x boot loader after all...

Yes I can boot into Windows without the external disk, it just boots GRUB everything as normal no changes. I think the other image I posted showing a Windows NT 5.x MBR was misleading. BOOTICE likes to pretend any disk has a MBR, to test this I put in a memory stick with some media files and it claimed the MBR was windows 98...



Dalai wrote:And the question about the boot directory is definitely still valid.


Here's a tree of G:

Code: Select all
.
├── Boot
│   ├── BCD
│   ├── BCD.LOG
│   ├── BCD.LOG1
│   ├── BCD.LOG2
│   ├── BOOTSTAT.DAT
│   ├── cs-CZ
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── da-DK
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── de-DE
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── el-GR
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── en-US
│   │   ├── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   │   └── memtest.exe.mui
│   ├── es-ES
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── fi-FI
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── Fonts
│   │   ├── chs_boot.ttf
│   │   ├── cht_boot.ttf
│   │   ├── jpn_boot.ttf
│   │   ├── kor_boot.ttf
│   │   └── wgl4_boot.ttf
│   ├── fr-FR
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── hu-HU
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── it-IT
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── ja-JP
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── ko-KR
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── memtest.exe
│   ├── nb-NO
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── nl-NL
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── pl-PL
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── pt-BR
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── pt-PT
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── ru-RU
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── sv-SE
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── tr-TR
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── zh-CN
│   │   ├── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   │   └── memtest.exe.mui
│   ├── zh-HK
│   │   ├── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   │   └── memtest.exe.mui
│   └── zh-TW
│       └── bootmgr.exe.mui
├── bootmgr
├── boot-repair
│   └── log
├── BOOTSECT.BAK
├── FZPHT
├── NST
├── $RECYCLE.BIN
│   ├── S-1-5-21-3387062053-1128700959-3436415133-1000
│   │   └── desktop.ini
│   ├── S-1-5-21-3387062053-1128700959-3436415133-1006
│   │   └── desktop.ini
│   └── S-1-5-21-3387062053-1128700959-3436415133-1007
│       └── desktop.ini
├── sysres.txt
├── System Volume Information
│   ├── Chkdsk
│   │   └── Chkdsk20140925192430.log
│   ├── SPP
│   │   └── OnlineMetadataCache
│   │       └── {95bc69cb-3e48-4ab5-a8f4-fb676b178b8e}_OnDiskSnapshotProp
│   └── tracking.log
└── $UpgDrv$

36 directories, 48 files


I believe G: is the true location of BCD as these files are not visible under Windows! I think GRUB was overwritten as PBR when I messed up BCD and used boot-repair to make my computer bootable again.


Dalai wrote: and maybe rewrite the MBR onto the internal disk just to be sure.


I think the MBR currently being used is the one on the internal disk.

Dalai wrote:Before you make any changes, make sure you back-up your partition table (with BOOTICE) to be able to restore it (under Windows PE, i.e. a Windows Live-/Setup DVD).


Just to be clear, if things go wrong enter Windows PE and use BOOTICE to restore PBR?
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Re: Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Postby Dalai » 30.08.2018, 23:39

daz wrote:BOOTICE likes to pretend any disk has a MBR, to test this I put in a memory stick with some media files and it claimed the MBR was windows 98...

Which might even be correct. BOOTICE didn't show an MBR for the second disk in my test machine (VM), so it seems to analyze what's there.

Here's a tree of G:

OK, then you have to make that partition active, not your Windows partition.

I think the MBR currently being used is the one on the internal disk.

Yes, but because GRUB shows up at all it must come from somewhere, either PBR or MBR (or both).

Just to be clear, if things go wrong enter Windows PE and use BOOTICE to restore PBR?

Yes. But you can only do so when you created a backup of MBR and PBR beforehand (obviously).

To summarize:
  1. Launch BOOTICE and create backups of partition table and PBR and save them where you always have access, even if something goes wrong (e.g. USB flash drive)
  2. Set your G: drive/partition active which should reset the active flag on your currently active partition (the Linux partition)
  3. Install an NT 6.x boot loader to both MBR and PBR, the latter being drive G:
  4. Reboot, and hope that BCD shows up first ;).
In case you can't boot to Windows anymore, boot a Windows PE live-system, launch BOOTICE and restore PBR and partition table from the backup.

Regards
Dalai
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Re: Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Postby daz » 05.09.2018, 18:03

Well I followed your steps Dalai and everything seems to have worked :)

BCD is now the default bootmanager and windows update worked without being reverted. Those two updates we talked about earlier still don't work but I'm not too concerned. I then used EasyBCD to add the linux installation to BCD.

Thank you for all your help and patience.
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Re: Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Postby Dalai » 05.09.2018, 20:39

daz wrote:Well I followed your steps Dalai and everything seems to have worked :)

I'm glad that it did because, honestly, I've never used BOOTICE before (didn't even know about it, but had a look at it because aker mentioned it).

BCD is now the default bootmanager and windows update worked without being reverted.

That's good. It also tells me that there are more updates having problems with BCD not being the primary boot manager, just as I suspected. OTOH, it's not surprising because we're talking about MS products here ;).

Those two updates we talked about earlier still don't work but I'm not too concerned.

You mean the IE11 prerequisite updates (KB2533623 and KB2731771)? Well, is IE11 installed correctly now?

I then used EasyBCD to add the linux installation to BCD.

Ah, yes, that's another way to do it.

Thank you for all your help and patience.

You're welcome :).

Regards
Dalai
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Re: Failure configuring updates, reverting changes

Postby daz » 05.09.2018, 21:28

Yes IE11 is installed correctly
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